Romantically and socially struggling with girls

[Aurora]

2 hours ago, sammyboy said:

Hi @Aurora, no problem at all. Anyway you’d like. 
 

Well, I’m happy with who I am and what I do and my ability to be happy with myself in the moment, but I wish my situation could be better by having surrounding myself around positive people every day such as guy friends and girl friends in my life than my family, which do not seem to see good interests at heart and rather think to religion and isolation. Yes, I’d like to have the confidence and freedom with girl friends and romantic partners and yes, to find the right places and times to be intimate and share my sexual desires. 
 

I went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie by myself for fun and I knew I was going to be surrounded by girls and yes I was okay with that. I think when I pre ordered the ticket, I was hoping for some sort of Hail Mary the girl is right there and things work like fairy tale stuff; however, I also knew that if I went, it’s because I want to se the performance and that’s what matters. In the end, there was a girl that sat next to me and yes she was attractive so I did have some hesitancy towards even making an effort to talk to her and I just spoke to myself. She asked me a question about the concert and we had a brief q&a conversation. I felt like she was annoyed after a while so I didn’t bother her as she was talking to her friend the whole time but I did ask one or two questions during the movie to address my confusion. It’s these thoughts that interfere into my mind that I am an inconvenience or something hidden and it really gets in the middle of my thinking. I tend to also overthink a ton which is why the inconvenience thought came in because I was thinking that she probably thought she’s just in for the movie, not a convo and all with someone else. Like I overthink what a girl is thinking pre, during, and post. I shouldn’t really be and just be allowing myself to do as I feel but something inside just makes me overthink and hurt myself in the process. After the concert, I decided to go to the club where my friend was at and met him. This one girl he was talking to was actually really rude and ignorant towards me, not that I cared but I was like wow this girl got issues. I saw a few girls I’ve approached before but I was overthinking about what they’re thinking so I didn’t even take an effort to say “hi” or “hey” ever. I just tried to mind my business and focus on my positive energy on myself and the moment but I couldn’t help but sneak a peek around to see those girls and think about it. I overthink a lot about the girls’ pov so maybe a tip on how to control that or what to just think about or something. there was this one girl I didn’t before and I was attracted to her style so she didn’t really take on earlier when I was saw her but then my friend’s fwb was with them later outside so I pulled up and asked for a smoke. This girl came off as rude earlier but then after a few minutes, this girl and her friend answered my question about their story meeting so I ended up being the listener for minutes. And then, and this is where it gets more, she’s talking about her dad in tangent from a story about her past best friend and his abuse so I knew that was a lot. What threw me off was “oh we’re telling this poor kid every thing” and it really brushed me off the wrong way which I called them out on but they said they didn’t mean that way or but their behavior was something else once she said that but for some reason, I admired her and asked for her number. She hasnt responded and I don’t expect her to but as you can see, I’m really asking myself why and all these questions on respect and perspective. Respect is really important to me and I feel like it’s tough on me when I don’t find that same respect as I give, even as I acknowledge that I won’t recieve the respect I give and I need to respect myself first and foremost but still, it kills inside for a tingle of a minute ya know. This kind of stuff is what kills me inside and then affects my external happiness because I feel this heavy pressure of not being enough to be the man or adult having fun in the room and talking in a man to woman or friends conversation. 
 

To answer your question, yes I think it’s much easier to talk to a girl that I’m not attracted to because I know nothing comes from it. I guess I’m confused on the whole process in my head about attraction. If I’m attracted, I should go. If I’m not, then it’s whatever. But it’s like the “go before it’s too late” that gets me because I don’t want to miss. I’m always afraid that I’ll miss it (FOMO has always been there, I guess) which is why it’s the extra pressure that prevents me from having fun and just being me. Plus, my ex-friends, or the ones that weren’t really my friends, they’re doing well in career and relationships so maybe secretly in my head I’m trying to prove myself that I can get a girlfriend if I want or be intimate as I want or something I want with a girl I’m attracted to. 
 

i think, at the end of all this, it comes down to my critical thoughts and my thought process. I need help and I’m fine with doing it here because I was others that struggle with this to learn too so I don’t mind sharing here and learning and others learning from me. I’d like to hear more from you on this and gain support for this. 
 

Lastly, I see what you mean. That quote is perfect and I read this earlier to think over it a while before responding but I forgot the quote while pressured in the moment seeing everything so I feel if I were to repeat this in the pressured moment then things could slowly calm down and I’d get back to the right headspace to do what I want as I want to be where and what I want. I think that’s the best quote I’ve heard so I have nothing to add to that. 

Hi @sammyboy, I love that you went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie on your own! I know plenty of people who wouldn't go to the movies on their own. I think it show how comfortable and confident you feel within yourself - kudos to you! 

I'm glad you found my quote helpful. Don't worry if you forgot it in the moment. What can be useful is to keep repeating the phrase to yourself several times a day. Like this you will find it easy to remember when you are feeling under pressure and as you said, it might help you to relax in that moment. 

Can I ask, how much of your time would you say is taken up by thinking about the difficulties you've been experiencing talking to and connecting with girls you're interested in? To me it seems like your thoughts keep coming back to this throughout the day and it is getting in the way of you just enjoying the moment like eg when you went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie. Is that right? If so, then one of things you might find helpful is, whenever you notice this happening to try and focus your thoughts on the here and now instead. You could repeat that phrase I mentioned and see if that helps. Also, have you heard of mindfulness and is that something you've tried before? If not, I can tell you a little more about it if you like. 

I think you're right, when you say that a lot of it might be coming down to your critical thoughts and your thought process. It's kind of you to say that you're happy to talk about this on the forum and that it might be helpful for others to learn from this as well. If at any point you would prefer to talk about this confidentially just let me know.  I'm going to break this down a bit so it's not too much in one go and doesn't get too confusing. I hope that's OK with you. I find it can be helpful to start off by thinking about how our thoughts can influence our feelings and our behaviour and some of the things that might happen in our body as a response to the thoughts we've been having. You might know this already and I would curious to know, whether this is something you've noticed about yourself?

When we have unhelpful/critical thoughts, these thoughts can elicit certain feelings in us which is often anxiety or fear or self-consciousness. Anxiety, as you may know, is the way our body responds to danger.  When we are feeling anxious, adrenaline is released into our body in order to enable us to either fight the danger or run away (even if there is no real danger there). The adrenaline response in our body leads to physical sensations. What this means is that we might notice certain physical sensations such as our heart starts to race, we might start sweating or we have a funny feeling in our stomach etc. We often respond to this with anxious behaviours such as that we might start to stutter, our mind goes blank and we can't think of anything to say or we simply just leave the situation. This is in return can lead to more anxious thoughts, which again might make our physical sensations worse etc. And it can be a bit of a vicious cycle. I hope I have explained this so it makes sense. Let me know if not or if anything is still unclear. If this all makes sense then I can tell you a bit more about what we can do to try and break that vicious cycle if you are interested. 

[Aurora]

@sammyboy I forgot to mention that I will be logging off soon and I will be away until next Friday. I will get back to you once I'm back online but if you want any support in the meantime please reach out to one of the other support mentors. 

[sammyboy]

20 hours ago, Aurora said:

Hi @sammyboy, I love that you went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie on your own! I know plenty of people who wouldn't go to the movies on their own. I think it show how comfortable and confident you feel within yourself - kudos to you! 

I'm glad you found my quote helpful. Don't worry if you forgot it in the moment. What can be useful is to keep repeating the phrase to yourself several times a day. Like this you will find it easy to remember when you are feeling under pressure and as you said, it might help you to relax in that moment. 

Can I ask, how much of your time would you say is taken up by thinking about the difficulties you've been experiencing talking to and connecting with girls you're interested in? To me it seems like your thoughts keep coming back to this throughout the day and it is getting in the way of you just enjoying the moment like eg when you went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie. Is that right? If so, then one of things you might find helpful is, whenever you notice this happening to try and focus your thoughts on the here and now instead. You could repeat that phrase I mentioned and see if that helps. Also, have you heard of mindfulness and is that something you've tried before? If not, I can tell you a little more about it if you like. 

I think you're right, when you say that a lot of it might be coming down to your critical thoughts and your thought process. It's kind of you to say that you're happy to talk about this on the forum and that it might be helpful for others to learn from this as well. If at any point you would prefer to talk about this confidentially just let me know.  I'm going to break this down a bit so it's not too much in one go and doesn't get too confusing. I hope that's OK with you. I find it can be helpful to start off by thinking about how our thoughts can influence our feelings and our behaviour and some of the things that might happen in our body as a response to the thoughts we've been having. You might know this already and I would curious to know, whether this is something you've noticed about yourself?

When we have unhelpful/critical thoughts, these thoughts can elicit certain feelings in us which is often anxiety or fear or self-consciousness. Anxiety, as you may know, is the way our body responds to danger.  When we are feeling anxious, adrenaline is released into our body in order to enable us to either fight the danger or run away (even if there is no real danger there). The adrenaline response in our body leads to physical sensations. What this means is that we might notice certain physical sensations such as our heart starts to race, we might start sweating or we have a funny feeling in our stomach etc. We often respond to this with anxious behaviours such as that we might start to stutter, our mind goes blank and we can't think of anything to say or we simply just leave the situation. This is in return can lead to more anxious thoughts, which again might make our physical sensations worse etc. And it can be a bit of a vicious cycle. I hope I have explained this so it makes sense. Let me know if not or if anything is still unclear. If this all makes sense then I can tell you a bit more about what we can do to try and break that vicious cycle if you are interested. 

Hi @Aurora, I totally understand. Thank you for the kind words. I went because my original intention was to be in an environment filled with girls and then I tried to tell myself that I’m going for the concert. In the end, I ended up having a good time watching it and appreciating the cinematography. I liked the way the camera moved around her during one of her songs and it was on spot with such intensity. 
 

I went out tonight and the phrase did work a few times but coming back, it’s like it works but I also feel like weak. There were some pretty girls but I didn’t approach them or take the effort. I waited for some to see some hidden details before moving to approach (e.g. boyfriend, group, whereabouts, etc). I talked to friend of friends and some were nice. I was attracted to one of them and I think she knew. I’m not sure if she reciprocated but the flirting did turn nasty. I’d say that the thinking about it, especially in the moment, makes it more difficult for myself. I did enjoy it but let’s say standing up and dancing or something during the concert, I couldn’t do to my fullest because I had thoughts in my head about what’d they think or how’d they react. Even today, going out, I had thoughts about my guy friends are thinking that I’m hanging out with them but with no girls. It can bother. In the end, it comes down to the fear of becoming desperate in the future. I don’t want to be desperate but if I let the time go by now, then it’s possible, not truly, but it’s possible that I could turn desperate in the future. I don’t know how to delete this thought from my mind. 
 

I’ve tried mindfulness through breathing and it does work. It’s surely a good way to process and filter out by controlling the breathing, hence it feels like I’m controlling my thought. To answer your question, I do notice this but I am having a hard time determining where it comes from. Perhaps it comes from inexperience and the past isolation still playing a role in how I think and live, or it’s just my body’s and mind’s reaction to my livelihood. The way you explained it is really well and it appears that these critical thoughts are affecting me harshly than ever with anxiety, fear, or extreme self-consciousness. It’s less with guys, sometimes with guy friends after a while due to my fear that I’ll be exposed as a confidence fraud or be treated as less than, and a lot with girls. Girls are human beings just like me and all the guys. Attractive girls especially. So why am I so propelled to it? Could it be the masturbation and social media exposure that’s affecting me? 

[Aurora]

On 10/28/2023 at 7:58 AM, sammyboy said:

Hi @Aurora, I totally understand. Thank you for the kind words. I went because my original intention was to be in an environment filled with girls and then I tried to tell myself that I’m going for the concert. In the end, I ended up having a good time watching it and appreciating the cinematography. I liked the way the camera moved around her during one of her songs and it was on spot with such intensity. 
 

I went out tonight and the phrase did work a few times but coming back, it’s like it works but I also feel like weak. There were some pretty girls but I didn’t approach them or take the effort. I waited for some to see some hidden details before moving to approach (e.g. boyfriend, group, whereabouts, etc). I talked to friend of friends and some were nice. I was attracted to one of them and I think she knew. I’m not sure if she reciprocated but the flirting did turn nasty. I’d say that the thinking about it, especially in the moment, makes it more difficult for myself. I did enjoy it but let’s say standing up and dancing or something during the concert, I couldn’t do to my fullest because I had thoughts in my head about what’d they think or how’d they react. Even today, going out, I had thoughts about my guy friends are thinking that I’m hanging out with them but with no girls. It can bother. In the end, it comes down to the fear of becoming desperate in the future. I don’t want to be desperate but if I let the time go by now, then it’s possible, not truly, but it’s possible that I could turn desperate in the future. I don’t know how to delete this thought from my mind. 
 

I’ve tried mindfulness through breathing and it does work. It’s surely a good way to process and filter out by controlling the breathing, hence it feels like I’m controlling my thought. To answer your question, I do notice this but I am having a hard time determining where it comes from. Perhaps it comes from inexperience and the past isolation still playing a role in how I think and live, or it’s just my body’s and mind’s reaction to my livelihood. The way you explained it is really well and it appears that these critical thoughts are affecting me harshly than ever with anxiety, fear, or extreme self-consciousness. It’s less with guys, sometimes with guy friends after a while due to my fear that I’ll be exposed as a confidence fraud or be treated as less than, and a lot with girls. Girls are human beings just like me and all the guys. Attractive girls especially. So why am I so propelled to it? Could it be the masturbation and social media exposure that’s affecting me? 

Hi @sammyboy, I'm back online today. How have things been for you over the last few days?

Thanks again for being so open and honest with me. I know it's not always easy to open up and ask for help. Reading through everything you've told me, I'm wondering whether it might be helpful for you to make a conscious decision that you don't want to meet any girls for a little while, just while you focus on yourself. I feel like this might help to take away some of the pressure you feel when you go out as you won't be wondering whether you will meet someone and how the conversation might go. What do you think? Once you feel more confident in yourself and you feel like you are having fewer critical/anxious thoughts you could give it another go and see if it makes a difference. What do you think? 

I'm glad to hear that I explained it well and you can see how our thoughts can affect us in lots of different ways. Don't worry if you can't determine where those thoughts are coming from - it's often lots of different things (like you mentioned) and not just one thing in particular. Also, once we start having these thoughts they often do get worse as it can be a bit of a vicious cycle. As I mentioned before luckily there are a few things we can do to break this vicious cycle. A big one is to catch the unhelpful thoughts we're having and try and reframe them. The next time you notice a critical thought pop into your head try and

- Catch the thought and ask yourself “what am I thinking/what is it that I’m concerned about”. You might find it helpful to write down the thoughts you’re having

- Next, notice your emotions - note down how this thought is making you feel/do you notice any physical sensations

- Now, challenge your thought (again you might find it helpful to note this down). You can do this by asking yourself the following questions: 

Is this fact or opinion?

Is there another way of looking at it?

What would I say to a friend with the same thought?

Is this a helpful thought to have?

- You might find the next step a bit more difficult but it gets easier with practice- it's time to reframe your thought. 

Think about whether there are any alternatives to your thought

Go for realistic - it doesn't have to be positive. For example, let's say the unhelpful thought you are having is "I just can't speak to girls" - rather than changing this thought into "I'm great at speaking to girls" a more realistic yet helpful thought might be something like "I'm just going to take this one step at a time" 

Ask yourself, what would be most helpful in this situation? Again, you might find it helpful to think of it from a friends perspective and think about how you would help them to reframe such a thought

If you can, turn your thought into an action that will make you feel better

- Finally look at how you are feeling now - has anything changed? 

If you're unsure how to do this we can also go through this together (if you feel comfortable sharing one of your critical thoughts). Do you think you would like to give this a go?