Romantically and socially struggling with girls

[sammyboy]

Hi everyone. I hope you guys are all well. I’m 24 year old guy and I’ve been struggling romantically and socially with girls. In the past I used to be isolated and lonely with no friends and no support system; however, given time, experience, and support, I’ve succeeded in building a solid group of guy friends with instilled trust and rapport and we make plans to meet every week and hang out despite our busy schedules. I’ve also taken an interest in Instagram posting and taking pictures. 
 

However, I’ve been struggling with talking and having closeness with girls. Bars and clubs are not the solution for me. It’s fun to enjoy and be surrounded with people but I’m looking for friendship and a sort of non-committal emotional/physical relationships. I guess a part of me wants to have fun fruitful experiences and adventures with guys and girls and that’s hard since the expectation is to be an adult. I can approach anyone and I do fairly well with guys, but not with girls. I go up and it gets awkward real fast, it’s just not going well at all. Also, I only meet them at night, not really during the day. Don’t know where to meet during the day here in a suburb in Texas. I’m struggling and it’s one of these nights that it would be nice to have touch, I guess kind of feeling intimate and desire. 
 

A little bit about me. I come from a Muslim background. I grew up isolated due to my dad’s career moves so I switched schools every few years. It wasn’t until high school that I realized how fast things were going socially and romantically with my class and I struggled then but I would subside it by watching cartoons and playing video games. College made it a little worse and I got succumbed into porn and masturbation. Now I’ve graduated last year and moved around, made effort with a nice girl and it was great but it was short term. Lost my job and moved back with my parents. I have guy friends and they’re here to back me but besides that it’s getting hard to meet girls here and build friendships or something romantic. 
 

I honestly don’t know what I am going to gain here. I’m lost, I’m alone but lonely, I’m scared I’ll never find someone to be with, and uh while I am strong and knowledgeable about myself and what I’m thinking, the feeling of desire and intimacy and validation are too strong and I can’t keep ignoring it. 

[catgal05]

Hi ,

Welcomed to DTL would you like me to tag a mentor? as I probably won't give the best advice lol.

To be honest I'm the same can understand you. 

[sammyboy]

6 minutes ago, catgal05 said:

Hi ,

Welcomed to DTL would you like me to tag a mentor? as I probably won't give the best advice lol.

To be honest I'm the same can understand you. 

Hi. How does that work? 

[catgal05]

Just now, sammyboy said:

Hi. How does that work? 

You press the @ mentor and a list of names will pop up. It should say digital mentors.

@Digital Mentor

 

 

 

[catgal05]

Just now, catgal05 said:

You press the @ mentor and a list of names will pop up. It should say digital mentors.

@Digital Mentor

They are really helpful with advice or  another member may be going through the same thing too and can help . I'm a member on here .

[sammyboy]

1 minute ago, catgal05 said:

They are really helpful with advice or  another member may be going through the same thing too and can help . I'm a member on here .

Apologies if I’m still confused. I click on the blue @ and then what? Click follow content or follow them?

[sammyboy]

@Digital Mentor help I guess? 

[catgal05]

4 minutes ago, sammyboy said:

Apologies if I’m still confused. I click on the blue @ and then what? Click follow content or follow them?

Oh it's okay , it takes getting use too

follow content is the stuff you joined and you get updates from that and following someone is the same.

[catgal05]

15 minutes ago, sammyboy said:

Apologies if I’m still confused. I click on the blue @ and then what? Click follow content or follow them?

There are also reaction buttons if you want to react you press it and a list of reactions pop up .

[catgal05]

If you need anymore help just ask me and I'll try and help.

[Megs-]

56 minutes ago, sammyboy said:

Hi. How does that work? 

@Digital Mentor are a group of support mentors who give support, either through 1-2-1 or by replying to your support posts on here .By tagging them, each support mentor will get a notification and will respond when their online. how're you today? Hugs <3

[catgal05]

26 minutes ago, Megs- said:

@Digital Mentor are a group of support mentors who give support, either through 1-2-1 or by replying to your support posts on here .By tagging them, each support mentor will get a notification and will respond when their online. how're you today? Hugs <3

Oh yeah i forgot about the 1-2-1 too Megs  thanks for pointing that out.

[Megs-]

1 minute ago, catgal05 said:

Oh yeah i forgot about the 1-2-1 too Megs  thanks for pointing that out.

no worries :)!

[Megs-]

( wanted to claify on somthing I mentioned )!

When I said 1-2-1, You can contact them by CS, which is confidetial support. which no-one execpt you and the DTL mentors will be able to see :)

[Aurora]

5 hours ago, sammyboy said:

Hi everyone. I hope you guys are all well. I’m 24 year old guy and I’ve been struggling romantically and socially with girls. In the past I used to be isolated and lonely with no friends and no support system; however, given time, experience, and support, I’ve succeeded in building a solid group of guy friends with instilled trust and rapport and we make plans to meet every week and hang out despite our busy schedules. I’ve also taken an interest in Instagram posting and taking pictures. 
 

However, I’ve been struggling with talking and having closeness with girls. Bars and clubs are not the solution for me. It’s fun to enjoy and be surrounded with people but I’m looking for friendship and a sort of non-committal emotional/physical relationships. I guess a part of me wants to have fun fruitful experiences and adventures with guys and girls and that’s hard since the expectation is to be an adult. I can approach anyone and I do fairly well with guys, but not with girls. I go up and it gets awkward real fast, it’s just not going well at all. Also, I only meet them at night, not really during the day. Don’t know where to meet during the day here in a suburb in Texas. I’m struggling and it’s one of these nights that it would be nice to have touch, I guess kind of feeling intimate and desire. 
 

A little bit about me. I come from a Muslim background. I grew up isolated due to my dad’s career moves so I switched schools every few years. It wasn’t until high school that I realized how fast things were going socially and romantically with my class and I struggled then but I would subside it by watching cartoons and playing video games. College made it a little worse and I got succumbed into porn and masturbation. Now I’ve graduated last year and moved around, made effort with a nice girl and it was great but it was short term. Lost my job and moved back with my parents. I have guy friends and they’re here to back me but besides that it’s getting hard to meet girls here and build friendships or something romantic. 
 

I honestly don’t know what I am going to gain here. I’m lost, I’m alone but lonely, I’m scared I’ll never find someone to be with, and uh while I am strong and knowledgeable about myself and what I’m thinking, the feeling of desire and intimacy and validation are too strong and I can’t keep ignoring it. 

Hi @sammyboy, huge big welcome to Ditch the Label. It's really great to have you here . I'm one of the support mentors, who  @catgal05 and @Megs- have kindly already told you about. 

Thanks so much for opening up about how you've been feeling. I know it can be difficult to be open about these kinds of things and reach out for help. You've explained everything really well and you strike me as a reflective person. One of the things that really stood out for me is how you told us that you used to be isolated and lonely but with time, experience and support you've succeeded in building a great group of guy friends. That's amazing and something you can really be proud of. Do you mind telling me a bit more about how you went about? I think that some of the things you found helpful to get yourself out of that isolation might also be helpful in gaining more confidence around girls. What do you think? Also, can you tell me a bit more about the girl you made an effort with before? 

If you would prefer to talk about this in confidence just let me know and I can send you a confidential support request (or you can contact us - like @Megs- just mentioned). We're here for you! 

[sammyboy]

21 hours ago, Aurora said:

Hi @sammyboy, huge big welcome to Ditch the Label. It's really great to have you here . I'm one of the support mentors, who  @catgal05 and @Megs- have kindly already told you about. 

Thanks so much for opening up about how you've been feeling. I know it can be difficult to be open about these kinds of things and reach out for help. You've explained everything really well and you strike me as a reflective person. One of the things that really stood out for me is how you told us that you used to be isolated and lonely but with time, experience and support you've succeeded in building a great group of guy friends. That's amazing and something you can really be proud of. Do you mind telling me a bit more about how you went about? I think that some of the things you found helpful to get yourself out of that isolation might also be helpful in gaining more confidence around girls. What do you think? Also, can you tell me a bit more about the girl you made an effort with before? 

If you would prefer to talk about this in confidence just let me know and I can send you a confidential support request (or you can contact us - like @Megs- just mentioned). We're here for you! 

Hi Aurora! I do tend to be overly reflective and tend to take self criticize myself harshly. Thank you for your kind remarks. 
 

A bit of background about my social life from high school. I went to a small k-12 IB charter school and since it was a small size, I didn’t really have friends. I did have these people in my class but we didn’t hang out or anything, nor really helped each other. Socializing was a matter of pure luck. I then went to community college due to my inability to succeed at the charter school during my senior year and felt the same way with socializing as a matter of pure luck. By the end of my freshman year, I had begun to give up on girls and trying to even date due to the lack of exposure to girls in social areas. I then transferred to a top tier university in my city which had a diverse exposure of girls in my age group and I didn’t know how to socialize. At the time, I didn’t know how to socialize but to just let it happen in a class setting or somehow someway in social situations. 
 

It wasn’t until prior to COVID that I went through a revelation that lots of things in my life were a lie (my friends which weren’t my friends, the whole get the degree and get the career at the door, etc). I found myself feeling like I’m in the bottom of the barrel and feeling less than as a human despite recently turning 21. So I made it a mission to socialize and make friends and actively approach dating and hookup culture with girls. This didn’t go so well as I was nervous, socially awkward, lost and inexperienced, or just too timid to try. At one time, I even got called by campus police asking what my intentions are as the way I was practicing socializing and making effort to connect with girls was seen as creepy. Furthermore, socializing at my university was difficult because it was filled with guys in higher income class that it was hard for me to find belonging in my 2 years there. I would try my hardest to connect with the guys and find where i fit in the social ladder which didnt go well at all. I struggled socially and often felt suicidal as my depression stemming from loneliness and isolation took the worst of me. I had to actively take university therapy.
 

I graduated last year and moved to charleston, south carolina for my job. It was an illuminating experience as it gave me exposure to a different crowd and allow me to keep trying. I still felt the presence of loneliness and isolation but i tried to go out as much as I could. During this time, I was able to make my first friend group of guys through a party and we hung out a few times watching college football. It was nice but it was short. At the time I would still go strong with approaching girls but understood social boundaries and etiquettes to come off as aware and decent but it didnt go so well. 

The one girl i was intimate with started through an anon app and it was playful and brash at first but as we started texting each other anon, we shared life details and became curious about each other, eventually going sexual and taking the step to reveal ourselves. Our first few casual hangouts were awkward but as I had my own place, the awkwardness subsided and we became close and intimate. It died down because we both knew it was casual and non commital. Eventually I had to move back to my hometown due to my job loss. 

When I moved back, I started going out a few weeks later and made a friend with an up and coming DJ who helped me associate myself with the DJ scene across the city. I made one friend whos a gaming youtuber at an in n out (crazy, right?) I have a friend that is a software engineer but a fitness influencer and hes helping me with my exercise and diet regimen. I made 2 friends along with youtuber friend by inviting them to play basketball at a bar (those basketball things youll find at chuck e cheese but bigger). And many more. Many guys do find me polarizing and cool and valuable not to lose and I apperciate. A few call me a "god among men." and I get invited to things and often see myself as the link between guy friends which is great and more than what I wished for and hope to continue. I only wish it was the same with girls, even for friendships.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by sammyboy

[Aurora]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:01 AM, sammyboy said:

Hi Aurora! I do tend to be overly reflective and tend to take self criticize myself harshly. Thank you for your kind remarks. 
 

A bit of background about my social life from high school. I went to a small k-12 IB charter school and since it was a small size, I didn’t really have friends. I did have these people in my class but we didn’t hang out or anything, nor really helped each other. Socializing was a matter of pure luck. I then went to community college due to my inability to succeed at the charter school during my senior year and felt the same way with socializing as a matter of pure luck. By the end of my freshman year, I had begun to give up on girls and trying to even date due to the lack of exposure to girls in social areas. I then transferred to a top tier university in my city which had a diverse exposure of girls in my age group and I didn’t know how to socialize. At the time, I didn’t know how to socialize but to just let it happen in a class setting or somehow someway in social situations. 
 

It wasn’t until prior to COVID that I went through a revelation that lots of things in my life were a lie (my friends which weren’t my friends, the whole get the degree and get the career at the door, etc). I found myself feeling like I’m in the bottom of the barrel and feeling less than as a human despite recently turning 21. So I made it a mission to socialize and make friends and actively approach dating and hookup culture with girls. This didn’t go so well as I was nervous, socially awkward, lost and inexperienced, or just too timid to try. At one time, I even got called by campus police asking what my intentions are as the way I was practicing socializing and making effort to connect with girls was seen as creepy. Furthermore, socializing at my university was difficult because it was filled with guys in higher income class that it was hard for me to find belonging in my 2 years there. I would try my hardest to connect with the guys and find where i fit in the social ladder which didnt go well at all. I struggled socially and often felt suicidal as my depression stemming from loneliness and isolation took the worst of me. I had to actively take university therapy.
 

I graduated last year and moved to charleston, south carolina for my job. It was an illuminating experience as it gave me exposure to a different crowd and allow me to keep trying. I still felt the presence of loneliness and isolation but i tried to go out as much as I could. During this time, I was able to make my first friend group of guys through a party and we hung out a few times watching college football. It was nice but it was short. At the time I would still go strong with approaching girls but understood social boundaries and etiquettes to come off as aware and decent but it didnt go so well. 

The one girl i was intimate with started through an anon app and it was playful and brash at first but as we started texting each other anon, we shared life details and became curious about each other, eventually going sexual and taking the step to reveal ourselves. Our first few casual hangouts were awkward but as I had my own place, the awkwardness subsided and we became close and intimate. It died down because we both knew it was casual and non commital. Eventually I had to move back to my hometown due to my job loss. 

When I moved back, I started going out a few weeks later and made a friend with an up and coming DJ who helped me associate myself with the DJ scene across the city. I made one friend whos a gaming youtuber at an in n out (crazy, right?) I have a friend that is a software engineer but a fitness influencer and hes helping me with my exercise and diet regimen. I made 2 friends along with youtuber friend by inviting them to play basketball at a bar (those basketball things youll find at chuck e cheese but bigger). And many more. Many guys do find me polarizing and cool and valuable not to lose and I apperciate. A few call me a "god among men." and I get invited to things and often see myself as the link between guy friends which is great and more than what I wished for and hope to continue. I only wish it was the same with girls, even for friendships.  

Hi @sammyboy, you do sound like a very reflective person - just alone for noticing that you can be overly reflective and that you can criticise yourself harshly. I think there is a reason why we say that we can can be our own worst critics and I'm not sure if it's always that helpful.  Is that something you would like to work on, do you think? 

Thanks so much for explaining everything in more detail to me. It sounds like you've been through a lot and even though you felt really lonely and isolated at times, you were determined to change your situation. I get the impression that you are a very determined person overall and it's impressive how you've changed things for the better. It's so nice to hear that you now have a great group of friends , who make you feel valued and appreciated. Am I right in thinking. that there was a time, where you didn't feel as comfortable in social situations (with other guys) as you do now? If so, what made a difference and what helped you to build up your confidence? You mentioned, going out, asking people to hang out with you and it sounds like a lot of guys look up to you now. What is it that makes them feel comfortable in your presence, do you think? The reason why I am asking this is because, even though you might not feel comfortable around girls right now, it doesn't mean that it will always be like that. What do you think? 

Also, do you mind me asking, are there any social situations where you get to hang out with girls at the moment? What about at work? Do you have many female colleagues? I'm just wondering whether you've have many opportunities to chat and interact with girls on a day to day basis or whether this isn't something you're used to. 

[sammyboy]

18 hours ago, Aurora said:

Hi @sammyboy, you do sound like a very reflective person - just alone for noticing that you can be overly reflective and that you can criticise yourself harshly. I think there is a reason why we say that we can can be our own worst critics and I'm not sure if it's always that helpful.  Is that something you would like to work on, do you think? 

Thanks so much for explaining everything in more detail to me. It sounds like you've been through a lot and even though you felt really lonely and isolated at times, you were determined to change your situation. I get the impression that you are a very determined person overall and it's impressive how you've changed things for the better. It's so nice to hear that you now have a great group of friends , who make you feel valued and appreciated. Am I right in thinking. that there was a time, where you didn't feel as comfortable in social situations (with other guys) as you do now? If so, what made a difference and what helped you to build up your confidence? You mentioned, going out, asking people to hang out with you and it sounds like a lot of guys look up to you now. What is it that makes them feel comfortable in your presence, do you think? The reason why I am asking this is because, even though you might not feel comfortable around girls right now, it doesn't mean that it will always be like that. What do you think? 

Also, do you mind me asking, are there any social situations where you get to hang out with girls at the moment? What about at work? Do you have many female colleagues? I'm just wondering whether you've have many opportunities to chat and interact with girls on a day to day basis or whether this isn't something you're used to. 

Hi @Aurora, yes that’s true about being our own worst critics and honestly, with my family and figuring my life out situation (separate situation), it is getting harder to control. That is something I am working on but I am open to hearing new perspectives and help.

Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate the kindness. Looking back, when I first started my quest to make guy friends and find belonging, yes I was uncomfortable but as time went and my confidence rose, it got better so I remember it was less struggling to approach but hard to maintain. I guess when I was in the university, I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd and there’s a limitation to what kind of guys to associate with, as a result I was limited and my loneliness and isolation got the worst of me. I didn’t know the different kind of groups and options available outside of my university which is in a big city. Plus, I was taking on three other tasks: (a) do well in class, (b) date girls,  and (c) have a social life by going to frat parties. In a way, I can see how my need to be with the popular crowd threw them off and caused me to feel more lonely. And the lying to myself and others, including my family, about what I’ve done and who I know and all definitely didn’t help. However, after graduating and moving to Charleston, I came across a lot of different guys with different backgrounds but we connected by sharing our backgrounds and finding some sort of similarity and it came around that we did come to it and connected. However, the maintaining the friendship was difficult for most people I came across. Anxiety behind texting potential friends to meet up became an issue and I would blame everything but myself that I didn’t take the step to reach out. In a way, I was hoping they’d reach out too. It wasn’t until this past summer, when I lost my job, that I actually found myself feeling more confident than ever and just winging it and it opened up a lot of avenues with talking to people. I made a few friends there who I can talk the whole night to about literally anything. 

Coming back to my hometown, I thought everything was going to be bleak but it turns out that it didn’t have to be so. I went out and found myself socializing with other guys with quite ease. Approaching them was easy and upon the conversation, taking action really lifted up my capability to make friends. When I met my friend at In-N-Out, it was the most unexpected way. I just complimented and it turned into a conversation talking about careers and living in LA (used to live there), then all of a sudden, we spent 2 hours driving in my car around town and sitting around at a park playground to talk more and since then we’ve been in contact. There was always a thought that maybe he won’t reach out but he does as I do. 

I think the reason guys find me comfortable, welcoming, and positive presence is that I speak the way I am and it is something we connect on. Putting in the right amount of effort and just enjoying it without asking for anything from them puts it at ease and we have fun talking to each other. Sometimes it can be 2 minutes or it can be the whole night but the first few minutes kind of puts it in that we vibe or not. I guess when it comes to girls, their attractiveness stuns me hence making it awkward and uncomfortable not just for me but for them too.

No I do not really have social situations where I get to hang out with girls. There are times when it’s my guy friends and some girls that they’re with. I have a guy friend who’s a DJ and a few groupies that come with us. He’s FWB with one of them. He doesn’t enjoy it and I do not trust them because they don’t seem sincere and he acknowledges that but they come. My other friend, the fitness guy, has a girlfriend and I click with her well but no I do not hang out with girls as much as I’d like to. I don’t even hang out with my sister and cousin anymore since they started driving, now they do everything without me. I do not currently have a job and I am looking for one in the job field I want to be in. When I was in Charleston, I’d be a regular at this restaurant/bar and acquainted with a few girls that were bartenders and around the same age group as me but we didn’t hang out. I’ve been trying to call to catch up but they’re busy or not interested to talk since I’ve come back to my hometown permanently. I just don’t know how to do it but I want to do that with girls. Dates and casual hanging out. 

[sammyboy]

I’ve been thinking tonight that you know I do like the freedom, space, free thought and I love myself in my own space doing my things even when there are times that I know it’s not right (eating junk food, watching crappy tv), and when I’m with people so why cannot I feel this way out there? The same way I’m with the guys that whatever happens, I’m fine. Why can’t I relax and be happy with who I am and the free space I have to do whatever and however I feel with anyone when I’m out there. I just finished watching the Hannah Montana movie and as much as I’d enjoy watching it with someone and allowing myself to vulnerable with them, for the first time, I actually enjoyed just watching it myself and being vulnerable in the emotional moments and happy in the fun and funny moments. I love myself, I have nothing to fear, my height (5’8) may not be ideal and my teeth are not perfect but they’re white, and I have a little more fat all around my body but I’m fine and I’m happy, I still look good and I can do better every day being better but I love myself and I love the inner qualities of myself and everything is perfect inside even if the outer qualities do not match with the expectation. 

To add to that, I was listening to the song “Crazier” by Taylor swift in the movie and I remember the feelings and emotions I associated to the first time I heard the song and scene when I was 10. To me, it made me feel good as a kid dreaming of being a man and today it still gives me the same feelings knowing that I am a young man and that I feel the same and I know that I am capable, good enough, happy, fun, and strong as I dreamed before but it makes me also feel like wanting a girl there with me.  

Edited October 24, 2023 by sammyboy

[Aurora]

1 hour ago, sammyboy said:

Hi @Aurora, yes that’s true about being our own worst critics and honestly, with my family and figuring my life out situation (separate situation), it is getting harder to control. That is something I am working on but I am open to hearing new perspectives and help.

Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate the kindness. Looking back, when I first started my quest to make guy friends and find belonging, yes I was uncomfortable but as time went and my confidence rose, it got better so I remember it was less struggling to approach but hard to maintain. I guess when I was in the university, I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd and there’s a limitation to what kind of guys to associate with, as a result I was limited and my loneliness and isolation got the worst of me. I didn’t know the different kind of groups and options available outside of my university which is in a big city. Plus, I was taking on three other tasks: (a) do well in class, (b) date girls,  and (c) have a social life by going to frat parties. In a way, I can see how my need to be with the popular crowd threw them off and caused me to feel more lonely. And the lying to myself and others, including my family, about what I’ve done and who I know and all definitely didn’t help. However, after graduating and moving to Charleston, I came across a lot of different guys with different backgrounds but we connected by sharing our backgrounds and finding some sort of similarity and it came around that we did come to it and connected. However, the maintaining the friendship was difficult for most people I came across. Anxiety behind texting potential friends to meet up became an issue and I would blame everything but myself that I didn’t take the step to reach out. In a way, I was hoping they’d reach out too. It wasn’t until this past summer, when I lost my job, that I actually found myself feeling more confident than ever and just winging it and it opened up a lot of avenues with talking to people. I made a few friends there who I can talk the whole night to about literally anything. 

Coming back to my hometown, I thought everything was going to be bleak but it turns out that it didn’t have to be so. I went out and found myself socializing with other guys with quite ease. Approaching them was easy and upon the conversation, taking action really lifted up my capability to make friends. When I met my friend at In-N-Out, it was the most unexpected way. I just complimented and it turned into a conversation talking about careers and living in LA (used to live there), then all of a sudden, we spent 2 hours driving in my car around town and sitting around at a park playground to talk more and since then we’ve been in contact. There was always a thought that maybe he won’t reach out but he does as I do. 

I think the reason guys find me comfortable, welcoming, and positive presence is that I speak the way I am and it is something we connect on. Putting in the right amount of effort and just enjoying it without asking for anything from them puts it at ease and we have fun talking to each other. Sometimes it can be 2 minutes or it can be the whole night but the first few minutes kind of puts it in that we vibe or not. I guess when it comes to girls, their attractiveness stuns me hence making it awkward and uncomfortable not just for me but for them too.

No I do not really have social situations where I get to hang out with girls. There are times when it’s my guy friends and some girls that they’re with. I have a guy friend who’s a DJ and a few groupies that come with us. He’s FWB with one of them. He doesn’t enjoy it and I do not trust them because they don’t seem sincere and he acknowledges that but they come. My other friend, the fitness guy, has a girlfriend and I click with her well but no I do not hang out with girls as much as I’d like to. I don’t even hang out with my sister and cousin anymore since they started driving, now they do everything without me. I do not currently have a job and I am looking for one in the job field I want to be in. When I was in Charleston, I’d be a regular at this restaurant/bar and acquainted with a few girls that were bartenders and around the same age group as me but we didn’t hang out. I’ve been trying to call to catch up but they’re busy or not interested to talk since I’ve come back to my hometown permanently. I just don’t know how to do it but I want to do that with girls. Dates and casual hanging out. 

 

Hi @sammyboy, thank you for telling me a bit more about how you went about making friends when you were feeling lonely. You're really good at explaining things on a deeper level. 

It sounds like you were uncomfortable to approach other guys at first. Then, with time you felt more confident approaching others but maintaining those friendships was difficult. Now you have a great circle of friends, you find it easy to talk to new people and I get the impression that you come across as a confident and popular guy, who a lot of other guys look up to. However, when you meet girls it feels awkward and uncomfortable - a bit like what it was like when you first decided to make friends and meet other people. It sounds like you don’t really hang out with girls much and some of the awkwardness might be because of that. Having said that I noticed that you said that the fitness guy has a girlfriend and you click with her. I’m therefore wondering if the awkwardness usually happens when you meet a girl, where there is the potential that you could date or get romantically involved. Do you think you might be putting pressure on yourself in those situations? 

I have a couple of suggestions that you might find helpful. The first one is to think about the situation from the girl's point of view. You mentioned that it tends to be awkward and uncomfortable not only for you but also for the girl. From what you’ve been telling me I’m wondering whether the girls might feel awkward in that situation not because of anything you say but because you come across as very confident and popular and this might make them feel shy and self-conscious in response. When I’m feeling anxious about something it helps me to remind myself that the other person might be feeling exactly the same and we just have to figure things out together. From everything you’ve been telling me it sounds like you are very good at making conversation with guys and making them feel at ease. That means that you have the social skills and you can make people feel comfortable and at ease in your company. What is it that you talk about when you first meet another guy? Maybe you could try the same, the next time you meet a girl you like? You might also find it helpful to remind yourself that the girl is most likely feeling shy and think about what you could say to make her feel more at ease. This might help to shift the focus away from yourself and shift your thoughts towards her, rather than thinking about how you are doing in that conversation. Does that make sense and do you think that might be helpful?

Another thing I wanted to ask you is if you have tried online dating? The reason why I am asking this is because with online dating it’s usually very clear what both people want and this can make things easier. Whereas if we meet someone in a social situation we don’t know if they are also interested in meeting someone. What do you think? 

You mentioned being open to hear about new perspectives around being overly critical of ourselves. One thing that can be helpful is to challenge the overly critical thoughts we have about ourselves and try and change them into more helpful thoughts. Is this something you’ve heard about before/that you’ve tried before. If not, would you like me to tell you a bit more about this?

 

[Aurora]

25 minutes ago, sammyboy said:

I’ve been thinking tonight that you know I do like the freedom, space, free thought and I love myself in my own space doing my things even when there are times that I know it’s not right (eating junk food, watching crappy tv), and when I’m with people so why cannot I feel this way out there? The same way I’m with the guys that whatever happens, I’m fine. Why can’t I relax and be happy with who I am and the free space I have to do whatever and however I feel with anyone when I’m out there. I just finished watching the Hannah Montana movie and as much as I’d enjoy watching it with someone and allowing myself to vulnerable with them, for the first time, I actually enjoyed just watching it myself and being vulnerable in the emotional moments and happy in the fun and funny moments. I love myself, I have nothing to fear, my height (5’8) may not be ideal and my teeth are not perfect but they’re white, and I have a little more fat all around my body but I’m fine and I’m happy, I still look good and I can do better every day being better but I love myself and I love the inner qualities of myself and everything is perfect inside even if the outer qualities do not match with the expectation. 

To add to that, I was listening to the song “Crazier” by Taylor swift in the movie and I remember the feelings and emotions I associated to the first time I heard the song and scene when I was 10. To me, it made me feel good as a kid dreaming of being a man and today it still gives me the same feelings knowing that I am a young man and that I feel the same and I know that I am capable, good enough, happy, fun, and strong as I dreamed before but it makes me also feel like wanting a girl there with me.  

I think these are really important points that you have raised there. I think in order to be truly open for a relationship it helps if we are happy with ourself and as cheesy as it might sound - if we love ourself for who we are.  Otherwise we might end up looking for validation in our partner and expect them to make us happy and that can be difficult in the long run. 

It's really nice to hear that you seem happy in yourself, you like your own company and that you love yourself . For some people that is enough and the genuinely don't want a relationship.  However, it's also OK to want someone in our life romantically, to share those moments and to have someone we feel we can open up to and be ourselves. And it can feel frustrating when we don't have that person in our life. What do you think might be a helpful thought that we can tell ourself in that situation? 

[sammyboy]

23 hours ago, Aurora said:

Hi @sammyboy, thank you for telling me a bit more about how you went about making friends when you were feeling lonely. You're really good at explaining things on a deeper level. 

It sounds like you were uncomfortable to approach other guys at first. Then, with time you felt more confident approaching others but maintaining those friendships was difficult. Now you have a great circle of friends, you find it easy to talk to new people and I get the impression that you come across as a confident and popular guy, who a lot of other guys look up to. However, when you meet girls it feels awkward and uncomfortable - a bit like what it was like when you first decided to make friends and meet other people. It sounds like you don’t really hang out with girls much and some of the awkwardness might be because of that. Having said that I noticed that you said that the fitness guy has a girlfriend and you click with her. I’m therefore wondering if the awkwardness usually happens when you meet a girl, where there is the potential that you could date or get romantically involved. Do you think you might be putting pressure on yourself in those situations? 

I have a couple of suggestions that you might find helpful. The first one is to think about the situation from the girl's point of view. You mentioned that it tends to be awkward and uncomfortable not only for you but also for the girl. From what you’ve been telling me I’m wondering whether the girls might feel awkward in that situation not because of anything you say but because you come across as very confident and popular and this might make them feel shy and self-conscious in response. When I’m feeling anxious about something it helps me to remind myself that the other person might be feeling exactly the same and we just have to figure things out together. From everything you’ve been telling me it sounds like you are very good at making conversation with guys and making them feel at ease. That means that you have the social skills and you can make people feel comfortable and at ease in your company. What is it that you talk about when you first meet another guy? Maybe you could try the same, the next time you meet a girl you like? You might also find it helpful to remind yourself that the girl is most likely feeling shy and think about what you could say to make her feel more at ease. This might help to shift the focus away from yourself and shift your thoughts towards her, rather than thinking about how you are doing in that conversation. Does that make sense and do you think that might be helpful?

Another thing I wanted to ask you is if you have tried online dating? The reason why I am asking this is because with online dating it’s usually very clear what both people want and this can make things easier. Whereas if we meet someone in a social situation we don’t know if they are also interested in meeting someone. What do you think? 

You mentioned being open to hear about new perspectives around being overly critical of ourselves. One thing that can be helpful is to challenge the overly critical thoughts we have about ourselves and try and change them into more helpful thoughts. Is this something you’ve heard about before/that you’ve tried before. If not, would you like me to tell you a bit more about this?

Hi Aurora. You’ve said it, yes it does feel like I am putting pressure on myself and I’ve talked to my friend indirectly about this, talking about dating in my 20s since I’ve been meaning to date actively and he said that I just give off the bad energy (not toxic but it’s like the normal case of bad energy that people want something and it’s reeking outward). In the end, his words helped me come to recognize that the energy I put in is what I get and honestly, looking back, I enjoy it with the guys but I think to myself how much I want girls to be a part of it, to feel normal, to make it work out as it should be and it’s just that bad energy (yes I know I’m not perfect) that is affecting me from reaching my full potential in whatever I do. 
 

Maybe I was a little too confident on my part there about popular and confident. Among my friends, I am seen as the link and the popular guy that no one messes with. In fact, I tend to get praises than joked on but that’s probably because they recognize my insecurity to not be seen less than but let’s just say they respect me a lot not to talk negatively and when they do, it’s because I allow it in the moment. For example, we were playing the whatever game and the card said to an imitation of your friend (hence, me) and they were a little like “I don’t want this to come off wrong or racist” (I’m Asian Pakistani-Persian) but I said I’m chill with it and they focused on one of my few things that I laugh about with myself which is that I use a normal voice in loud situations which came off funny to me and it was nice to do that but they respect me more than I thought that they won’t mess with me like that. I know guys tend to shit talk to each other and yes in certain ways we do but they’re good with me. I wanted to add that as context. 
 

I feel like when it comes to talking to girls, I tend to overthink about everything like come up with reactions and thoughts and POV from my head so instead of enjoying what I’m saying and doing, I tend to mix both and I can come off as stuttered or inferior because I’m trying too hard so I’d say I’m way too self conscious in the moment. When I talk to guys, I know one or two things will happen (a) they vibe, (b) they ignore, (c) they’re confused. With girls, I know that’s what would happen but there’s this hidden feeling I can’t describe, like some sort of consequence. With guys, I’ll talk about vibe, what I think about them from first look (you remind me of…, etc), something cool we both witnessed, or sometimes when it’s right a simple “hi” or “hey” and “whats up?” Now with girls, a “hey what’s up” or “hey how’s your night going?” only makes it bland and I’m not going to crazy but just starting off on a low energy, good vibes basis but it just makes it awkward and confusing for both of us.
 

A story I’d like to bring up from today. I planned to go to topgolf (a golfing game place) with friends so my friends came in slowly. When my first friend came, this server girl came and asked if we’ve been served but barely heard what I asked until she left and recognized that I asked for water. When I said thank you after she brought the waters, she just left fast. Come to think of it, maybe she wasn’t so into the job since it was a slow night so I don’t blame her for some clumsiness. When my friend and his gf came, he started to uplift the mood of the table and mess with this server girl and she got up for it even though it was a lot of inside joking among us that we did on her. For some reason, I feel a little jealous and I wanted to get her attention but often times I would feel disrespected because my friend’s vibe was more dominating than mine. You know, she was into it and whenever shit my friend was bringing on talking about. In the end, he joked about the girl putting her number on his receipt to joke his gf and I believed it but it wasn’t true and I came to recognize my insecurity there. At first, in the moment, it was the respect thing that was bothering me. Looking back, I was just not in the same vibe as my friend but felt like I deserved something. I was being professional and he was just being himself and it became clear to me that it was less about the server girl, who is attractive don’t get me wrong, but I wanted to be like that. He respects me and who I am and cares about me a lot as I do for him but yeah it was interesting how his confidence outshined and I learned something about it from him when it came to socializing. I shared this story because I wanted to write it down and I recognized as I wrote that while yes I was interested in the girl, I wasn’t expecting anything but he opened my mind and brought in a new emotion that I had locked when it came to service industry and customer relations. It’s ok to joke and mess around but respect them and that’s something that opened my mind. I wanna be free and not feel stuck on the formalities all the time. 

I do have some dating apps but my pictures (mostly selfies) are not as high quality as the app algorithms like. I tend to get bot profiles, fake profiles, scammer profiles, or too good to be true profiles. Some that are not my type. However, my like count is literally 3 on average (ghost likes) and I get no matches literally. Good bio and I use the pictures I have which are not like amazing but theyre filled with what I’ve done and what I like. I used to take the self validation from the apps seriously and it did affect me and my loneliness at one point too harshly, now it doesn’t and I know I can do better and I’m trying to take better pictures but with the whole energy focus, I’m asking myself if really putting that effort there is really worth it because I don’t want that on my head rent free affecting my ability to live. It’s just not working for me and I don’t expect it to work in the interim as I am figuring out a lot of stuff. People make it seem easy to vacation with friends and do activities and I’m only getting started so it’s a little difficult at the moment, especially with picture perfect expectations from the apps and algorithm. No hate, but it’s just not for me right now and what I can offer.
 

I am trying to challenge my critical thoughts and ask myself why I think that. It did help during my last breakdown as I processed it as i listened to music and videos that help me feel something positive. A while ago, I actually tried to acknowledge my thoughts and feelings and tell myself that they do not control me and I will not let it control me. Unfortunately, it ended up taking a toll because it all poured out at once. It’s like a spring of all my thoughts and feelings came back when it retracts back to spring form from extended form. Hence why I’ve been going back to challenging the critics in the moment than tell myself that it won’t control me because sooner or later, it comes back to haunt worst than ever. 

[sammyboy]

On 10/24/2023 at 3:56 AM, Aurora said:

I think these are really important points that you have raised there. I think in order to be truly open for a relationship it helps if we are happy with ourself and as cheesy as it might sound - if we love ourself for who we are.  Otherwise we might end up looking for validation in our partner and expect them to make us happy and that can be difficult in the long run. 

It's really nice to hear that you seem happy in yourself, you like your own company and that you love yourself . For some people that is enough and the genuinely don't want a relationship.  However, it's also OK to want someone in our life romantically, to share those moments and to have someone we feel we can open up to and be ourselves. And it can feel frustrating when we don't have that person in our life. What do you think might be a helpful thought that we can tell ourself in that situation? 

Yes, and even after tonight, I am still in tune with myself and happy with who I am. I just wish my parents would stop barking at my face every time I go outside instead of staying in all the time but for the most part, I’m free and I’m happy to pursue whatever I want to pursue. Like I’ve seen relationships between people where the guy or girl tends to be attentive about their partner’s details and cling certain things. And yes there was a time when I was in childhood and teen hood, and it was literally stereotyped into my brain that you need a partner to be happy and I tried desperately with myself, not with my crushes, to make to work with every crush I had. During my depression, I used to tell myself that I can’t watch tv or movies that show anything, especially romance, without someone. I used to feel miserable seeing relationships and love everywhere on my feeds and real life. I remember it killing me. It took me a long while, and even today, to find myself to where I am which is that I’m happy that I don’t have that situation of being tied to one person atm and that I am free to do what I want to do, feel how I want to feel, and see what I want to see. I am free and independent and I’m sure going to enjoy and reap every single minute it’s worth. Like I said, a long time, I thought having someone was the key to being happy but in actuality, my happiness comes from what I feel good doing in the moment. There are times where I think maybe I won’t find that one girl and my current situation might mess me up with a lifetime but empathically assessing that thought, I recognize that it’s not true and that I decide how I want my life, even when the world says I don’t. 
 

I am not really looking for relationships, but I guess what I am looking for is the other side of the coin. What I do with the guys is fun. We talk a bunch of bullshit out of our mouths and joke about certain things and do what all us guys do. I want the other side of the fun too, whether it’s with one girl being intimate, fun, and having that random situations random fun random activities situations, but also with groups of girls seeing their side of the world and having fun with them. I’m straight fyi and I think you’re getting what I’m saying. I’m not looking for commitment but I just want non committal fun, intimacy and desire, respect, and friendships with girls in such a way that we’re enjoying the moment, whatever happens around us, but not all too worried about the future but we’re there for each other if need be. I told myself that if I do end up finding the girl of my life, it’s gonna be a morning where I wake up and I know I can do this forever with that girl. 
 

to answer your question, I don’t know how to answer it. I think you may need to elaborate it

Edited October 25, 2023 by sammyboy

[Aurora]

Hi there, I thought I would answer both your messages together as I feel it's all connected. I hope that's OK. 

Thanks again for sharing all this with us. It really helps me to understand your situation better. From everything you've told me I get the impression that you're happy with who you are and your situation and you wouldn't necessarily even want to change your situation. You're not looking for a relationship as such but if you did meet the right girl, then you would be open to it. The thing you would really like to change is to not only have more girls in your life but to feel the same kind of openness and confidence that you experience when you meet new guys. And I do get a sense that you are missing the intimacy and being able to share your sexual desires with a girl. Is that right? 

It does sound like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself and that your thoughts are getting in the way of letting conversations flow naturally. A good starting point is to remind yourself that you can do it and even if conversations with girls feel awkward at the moment, it doesn't mean they will always feel like this! You're really good at connecting with guys and you have connected with girls, where it's clear that nothing intimate will come from this. This might also be the reason why your friend found it really easy to talk and joke with the girl who served you at topgolf. He came with his girlfriend and it was clear from the start that he wasn't interested in anything else - he was just being friendly. Do you think you would find it easier to strike up a conversation with a girl, who you don't find attractive? 

I think it might also be helpful to look at your thinking patterns and see if you might be able to change some of your unhelpful thoughts into more helpful thoughts. You mentioned about challenging your critical thoughts and that this works for a little while but that they come back to haunt you more than ever. I get that, usually when we try and supress something, we can do that for a little while but it often doesn't go away and instead build up inside us. If you like I might be able to give you some other ideas on how you might be able to challenge your thoughts without supressing them. How does that sound? Let me know if you are interested in hearing more about this and I will send you a confidential support request as I think it'll be easier to talk about it there. No pressure though - only if you think that might be helpful. 

No worries if you don't know how to answer my question. Maybe I can give you an example of a thought/phrase I would find helpful in that situation. For me something like "I'm really happy with the way things are at the moment. I won't put any pressure on myself to change my situation. Instead I will just let things happen naturally and enjoy how things are right now". This would remind me to focus on the things that are going well and take away some of the pressure. Do you think you would find it helpful to have a phrase like this that you can say to yourself. If so, what phrase do you think might work for you? 

[sammyboy]

Hi @Aurora, no problem at all. Anyway you’d like. 
 

Well, I’m happy with who I am and what I do and my ability to be happy with myself in the moment, but I wish my situation could be better by having surrounding myself around positive people every day such as guy friends and girl friends in my life than my family, which do not seem to see good interests at heart and rather think to religion and isolation. Yes, I’d like to have the confidence and freedom with girl friends and romantic partners and yes, to find the right places and times to be intimate and share my sexual desires. 
 

I went to see the Taylor Swift concert movie by myself for fun and I knew I was going to be surrounded by girls and yes I was okay with that. I think when I pre ordered the ticket, I was hoping for some sort of Hail Mary the girl is right there and things work like fairy tale stuff; however, I also knew that if I went, it’s because I want to se the performance and that’s what matters. In the end, there was a girl that sat next to me and yes she was attractive so I did have some hesitancy towards even making an effort to talk to her and I just spoke to myself. She asked me a question about the concert and we had a brief q&a conversation. I felt like she was annoyed after a while so I didn’t bother her as she was talking to her friend the whole time but I did ask one or two questions during the movie to address my confusion. It’s these thoughts that interfere into my mind that I am an inconvenience or something hidden and it really gets in the middle of my thinking. I tend to also overthink a ton which is why the inconvenience thought came in because I was thinking that she probably thought she’s just in for the movie, not a convo and all with someone else. Like I overthink what a girl is thinking pre, during, and post. I shouldn’t really be and just be allowing myself to do as I feel but something inside just makes me overthink and hurt myself in the process. After the concert, I decided to go to the club where my friend was at and met him. This one girl he was talking to was actually really rude and ignorant towards me, not that I cared but I was like wow this girl got issues. I saw a few girls I’ve approached before but I was overthinking about what they’re thinking so I didn’t even take an effort to say “hi” or “hey” ever. I just tried to mind my business and focus on my positive energy on myself and the moment but I couldn’t help but sneak a peek around to see those girls and think about it. I overthink a lot about the girls’ pov so maybe a tip on how to control that or what to just think about or something. there was this one girl I didn’t before and I was attracted to her style so she didn’t really take on earlier when I was saw her but then my friend’s fwb was with them later outside so I pulled up and asked for a smoke. This girl came off as rude earlier but then after a few minutes, this girl and her friend answered my question about their story meeting so I ended up being the listener for minutes. And then, and this is where it gets more, she’s talking about her dad in tangent from a story about her past best friend and his abuse so I knew that was a lot. What threw me off was “oh we’re telling this poor kid every thing” and it really brushed me off the wrong way which I called them out on but they said they didn’t mean that way or but their behavior was something else once she said that but for some reason, I admired her and asked for her number. She hasnt responded and I don’t expect her to but as you can see, I’m really asking myself why and all these questions on respect and perspective. Respect is really important to me and I feel like it’s tough on me when I don’t find that same respect as I give, even as I acknowledge that I won’t recieve the respect I give and I need to respect myself first and foremost but still, it kills inside for a tingle of a minute ya know. This kind of stuff is what kills me inside and then affects my external happiness because I feel this heavy pressure of not being enough to be the man or adult having fun in the room and talking in a man to woman or friends conversation. 
 

To answer your question, yes I think it’s much easier to talk to a girl that I’m not attracted to because I know nothing comes from it. I guess I’m confused on the whole process in my head about attraction. If I’m attracted, I should go. If I’m not, then it’s whatever. But it’s like the “go before it’s too late” that gets me because I don’t want to miss. I’m always afraid that I’ll miss it (FOMO has always been there, I guess) which is why it’s the extra pressure that prevents me from having fun and just being me. Plus, my ex-friends, or the ones that weren’t really my friends, they’re doing well in career and relationships so maybe secretly in my head I’m trying to prove myself that I can get a girlfriend if I want or be intimate as I want or something I want with a girl I’m attracted to. 
 

i think, at the end of all this, it comes down to my critical thoughts and my thought process. I need help and I’m fine with doing it here because I was others that struggle with this to learn too so I don’t mind sharing here and learning and others learning from me. I’d like to hear more from you on this and gain support for this. 
 

Lastly, I see what you mean. That quote is perfect and I read this earlier to think over it a while before responding but I forgot the quote while pressured in the moment seeing everything so I feel if I were to repeat this in the pressured moment then things could slowly calm down and I’d get back to the right headspace to do what I want as I want to be where and what I want. I think that’s the best quote I’ve heard so I have nothing to add to that. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by sammyboy